Of Swallow-Wort & Celandine

Swallow-wort. A vine with beautiful, star-shaped flowers. It tricks insects into laying eggs on its leaves. When the eggs hatch, the larvae eat the leaves—and die with a one hundred percent mortality rate.

Lesser celandine. A plant with bright, glossy, yellow flowers. It blooms early in the spring, outcompeting other plants only to offer little nutritional value to insects fresh out of hibernation. It then dies and leaves a bare patch of ground for other harmful plants to inhabit.

Both these plants are invasive species. They not only contribute to the suffering of pollinator insects, they do the same to the native plants those pollinators and other creatures depend on. Entire ecosystems thus suffer.

Enter the world of Dr. Shikha Singh, biologist and coordinator of the Jackson, Lenawee and Washtenaw Cooperative Invasive Species Management Area.

In our latest podcast episode on pollinators, Singh talks about the great relationship between pollinators and ecosystems, the toxic relationships invasive species create, and Tim Horton’s, the best coffee and donut chain.

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Learn more about Singh's organization here. Or find an invasive species group near you here.

This episode is part of a pollinator miniseries produced in partnership with NRDC. Learn about its latest pollinator work in Michigan here.

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Common Groundwater is hosted by the Michigan Environmental Council and Beau Brockett Jr.

Our music is "The Four Seasons" by Antonio Vivaldi, arranged by Derek Zhang and performed by Jackson resident Taj Wallace.

Transcript

Of Swallow-Wort & Celandine

[00:00:00] 

Beau Brockett: Hey folks, you are tuning into Common Groundwater, a podcast by the Michigan Environmental Council, where we go across the state to talk about the environment. We talk about stories about the environment, we talk about problems facing it, and the solutions to those problems. I'm Beau Brockett, your host, and joining me today in the Lansing office of the Environmental Council is Shika Singh, the coordinator and biologist for the Jackson Lenawee and Washtenaw Cooperative Invasive Species Management Area, or, JLW CISMA. 

Shikha Singh: Correct? Yeah. 

Beau Brockett: Welcome. 

Shikha Singh: It's a mouthful. It is. 

Beau Brockett: I didn't think I could pull it off, but I did on the first try, which was great. In all honesty, I practiced it ahead of time 'cause I knew it would flub me [00:01:00] up a bit. But thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

You are taking part in our pollinator miniseries here on the podcast where we are talking about the ways in which butterflies, bees, bats, beetles, et cetera, interact with various parts of Michigan, right? Agriculture, gardens. And today you and I are here to talk about, a bit of a grander sort of subject, how they interact with ecosystems at large. Before we get in, just wanted to give a few quick shout outs as we usually do.

So first a shout out to our production partner, NRDC, who's helping make this pollinator podcast series possible. Then wanna give a shout out too to The Stewardship Network who helped connect us, too. Yeah, so really appreciate that. 

Shikha Singh: They're a wonderful partner. I mean, they do so much as well, so we're really glad to work with them.

Beau Brockett: Yeah, awesome. 

Well, uh, as I usually start in the podcast, would you mind introducing yourself and your organization? What do you do and, and how does it interact with your employer? 

Shikha Singh: Yeah, as you'd mentioned, my name is Sheika Singh [00:02:00] and I am the JLW CISMA coordinator.

And I am actually a biologist in the Jackson County Conservation District. So we're like, this program is housed in the Jackson Conservation District, and essentially we are just like a group of partners and people who are interested in invasive species and who have come together to provide services to address some of those invasive species needs in the community. And so specifically I work in the Jackson Lenawee Washtenaw area, but there is someone like me who covers every single county in Michigan.

Beau Brockett: Oh, wow.

Shikha Singh: Yeah, we do a variety of things. We do survey and management. Sometimes we do management ourselves. Sometimes we do contracted treatment. Sometimes we can work on public and private land, which is kind of unique because sometimes, you know, government officials are like limited or county officials are limited. So we are able to straddle both public and private lands, which makes us a unique partner to have.

And [00:03:00] we also do a lot of education and outreach, like, kind of like things like this. And it's really important because we really want people to be aware of what invasive species are. It's like a hot, new topic. People are learning more and more about it. I know like when we were growing up, you know, like probably the zebra mussel, sea lamprey, some of those, those top, you know, eighties, nineties, species are a focus.

But now there are a lot of other species that are coming into focus, things like shrubs, things like plants, you know, insects that people are encountering. And so we really want to, highlight some of those issues.

And if you don't mind, I wanna go and define what an invasive species is because sometimes people don't really, um, get that definition correct.

I mean, I've gotten things from it. Something to be protected, something that's good, something that's bad. But the official definition is, it's some type of species that is not from around here. And in addition to not being from around here, it also has to cause or has a potential [00:04:00] to cause harm to the environment, to the economy or to human health.

 And just a brief example, you know, environment changes everything. Human health could be people getting hurt, people stepping on shells, or some of these plants have saps that people get on their skin. And then it causes boils, you know, when it reacts with the sun. Painful. And of course economic, people spending money addressing these issues or pipes or replacing things, management and so on.

Beau Brockett: Gotcha. I'm so glad you mentioned that because I just had a bit of a learning lesson myself a few weeks ago. We had a few different plant species we were trying to figure out, whether they were invasive or non-native, and I didn't necessarily understand that difference at first, but just because a species isn't native to Michigan doesn't necessarily also classify them as an invasive species.

Shikha Singh: Correct. 

Beau Brockett: Is that correct?

Shikha Singh: That's correct. 

I mean, the European honeybee, I mean, that's not from around here, but you know, we need the honeybee and we, we utilize it. And so, that is not an invasive [00:05:00] species. Dandelions are not from around here, but they don't really cause that much harm either, so they're not really considered an invasive species.

Beau Brockett: Gotcha. There we go. would you mind talking a little bit too of how you found yourself in this role and working with invasive species management? 

Shikha Singh: Yeah, so I actually am a native of Canada. So I came here, my biology degree was in University of Western Ontario, and I kind of was really interested in the environment because my parents took me camping, and my parents are immigrants when they came here and there's, you know, back in the day without any internet and stuff.

So they tried their best and they took me to different places and parks and really stoked my interest. And then I really got into like conservation. And so that's why I kind of ended up going in biology. And then from that, I came to Michigan State and I did my master's and PhD at Department of Fisheries and Wildlife.

Part of that work had a little bit of invasive species and that kind of transitioned and led me to this path working for a conservation district.

Beau Brockett: We were just saying before the podcast started, [00:06:00] too, that I've become friends with some of the fisheries and wildlife people and, yeah, just a great program over at Michigan State overall. I should also say we have another connection in that I lived right by the Canada border growing up and so like vacation or even just day trips to Canada crossing the bridge, the Blue Water Bridge.

Shikha Singh: So do you also hopefully appreciate a little Tim Horton's ? 

Beau Brockett: Some, so some of my friends are Tim Horton's haters. They just didn't grow up with it, I think, maybe? And I did. I love Tim Horton's. 

Shikha Singh: Well then we can be friends. 

Beau Brockett: The Canadian Maple donut with the filling, I dunno if they still have the one with the filling, but that was always my favorite, so. 

Shikha Singh: Oh, nice. Mine was a double chocolate.

Beau Brockett: Ah, yes. Yep. Yep. I gotcha. Uh, well to get back on the subject hand a bit more, um, you know, obviously this podcast mini series is all about pollinators.

But the core of your work is about invasive species. Could you talk a little bit about that relationship between invasive species and pollinators? 

Shikha Singh: Pollinators, you know, just, to go back a little bit, they take, you know, pollen grains from like the male part of the [00:07:00] plant, which is the anther, and then they transport it to the female part of the plant, which is the stigma. And sometimes that pollination can go, they need another plant to do that, or sometimes plants can do it, you know, within themselves. Like, you know, they have all the parts themselves. And so that function needs to occur. And unfortunately invasive species can change the environment.

That was one of the things that we talked about in the definition. And so invasive species have the ability to outcompete some of the native species, and that that means like, you know, changing the environment, changing like the food availability, it changes biodiversity.

So a picture, this. Picture you have, you know, an insect and that insect requires one specific plant for a certain part of its lifecycle.

So for example, the Karner blue butterfly, it needs the American lupine, you know, for a part of its lifecycle. But if that [00:08:00] plant is no longer there, it ceases to be able to live and, reproduce in that area. It may use other plants, you know, for nectar like, you know, monarch butterflies, like they use a variety of plants, you know, for nectar, but they do need milkweed, you know, for at least one part of their lifecycle.

So invasive species can change the environment, change the shelter, the food availability. They can also introduce diseases for both the pollinators themselves or other plants. So then there could be indirect effects of that way as well. 

Beau Brockett: Gotcha. So this invasive species competition dynamic that's happening can happen with the plants that pollinators are going to pollinate, and then also with, like, other insects as well that are invasive or other sorts of mammals or birds.

Shikha Singh: One of the things I wanna highlight is that when you have like, you know, one plant blooming, maybe it's blooming from June to August. Well, there are species, these pollinators that are awake [00:09:00] in, you know, like maybe end of April, early, early June or something like in May.

And so they need something to kind of kickstart them. You know, get that first, meal in them when they emerge from hibernation. And so sometimes these invasive species will outcompete some of those early spring ephemerals. Lesser celandine is an invasive species that does that.

And, that could impact the, food available for those early, early risers, so to speak. 

Beau Brockett: Gotcha. Okay. You've kind of already touched on this a bit. So pollinators obviously have a very large role in bettering an ecosystem because of the pollination dynamic that's happening. Could you speak a little bit more about how this sort of more personalized interaction between a creature and a plant is benefiting this larger macro sort of wilderness?

Shikha Singh: So one out of every three bites of food we need requires pollination. And then, you know, three quarters of some of the plants actually need some sort of a pollination. So without these pollinators, our [00:10:00] landscape would be very different and it would change. And that would change, you know, ecosystem services, you know, some of the services that we get from the environment and then just how things function, you know. And you remove the pollinators from this, web, then you can kind of see there'll be a cascading breakdown of, of what we see.

Beau Brockett: Yeah. And I'm guessing like, you know, Michigan obviously has a diverse array of. Of ecosystems. Your coastal sorts, like dunes landscapes. You have various sorts of forests. Pollinators are probably playing a role in each of those certain sets of plants interacting.

 Is that correct? 

Shikha Singh: Absolutely. Yeah. And so, you know, you'll have certain like native plants. The cool thing about native plants is a lot of them are evolved to like, live and withstand the conditions around here.

Mm-hmm. And so we need them to thrive. You know, those long tap roots that kind of like anchor that plant into the ground, that also prevents erosion. And sometimes if you look at your lawn, the roots are probably about this big, you [00:11:00] know, like, not, not very long. For those that are listening, only maybe like an inch or even less than that.

But then some of these long ones, I've seen plants that have roots as, as tall as I am. Wow. And they go really deep. And so they anchor the soil. And so when those plants are out competed or they're not there anymore or replaced, uh, that, you know, that changes the soil. It changes, you know, the ground, the moisture.

Some of these invasive species, like they take up a lot of water, like phragmites. You see them around the edges of pond like that long stalk the fluffy seed head. They're also all over the roads too. And so when you have a lot of them, it's just drawing that water, changing the water and changing the environment.

And you do have a lot of pollinators that, you know, nest in the ground. There are a lot of ground nesting bees. So I mean, that could make it challenging for those species. 

Beau Brockett: One thing I wanted to call out as well, like obviously you, work in a Tri-County area of sorts. Are there any particular, um, sorts of plants in creature interactions that you particularly like wanna [00:12:00] shout out or focus on, since we're just kind of talking about ecosystem approach?

Shikha Singh: Yeah. Yeah. So there's one species that I wanna highlight, and it's called swallow wort. So we have two species that are found here, pale and black swallow wort. It's a vine. It has really beautiful star shaped flowers and people loved it. They brought it in the botanical gardens. But then, as you can imagine, it started escaping and it kind of got here and people even like took it and were like, I want it in my garden. So they put it in here.

And the problem with this. Plant, this vine, is that it is related to milkweed, and we all know the milkweed and the monarch butterfly relationship, but swallow wort, it kind of like tricks the insects and like the, the native species because they will, you know, come and land and lay their eggs on it, which is fine.

The eggs will be there and those eggs will even hatch. But when those, uh. Those caterpillar, like the larvae start eating and munching on the leaves, that's gonna be a hundred percent mortality. Oh [00:13:00] wow. So it can really devastate, you know, like local, pollinator and, that it's not just a monarch butterfly that also can harm other insects.

It can also harm other, like, livestock in the area. So we definitely want some things like that to be, you know, managed or removed and people to keep an eye out for that.

And another hot topic that we're dealing with is lesser celandine. I, I kind of mentioned it before in the interview.

That one is kind of spreading along the Grand River, you know, the riparian zone by the water, the flood zones. And the problem with that particular species is that it actually is like an early, you know spring ephemeral, though you'll see it early in the springtime and

 it'll come in and it'll have, like, you know, it has tubers and it has, you know, bulblets and then it has seeds and stuff.

So it has a couple different reproductive strategies making it really, you know, easy. You know, to spread. And the interesting thing about that plant [00:14:00] is that it disappears really quickly. So within a month, that plant is gone. There's no trace of it. The tubers are underground. And so what is the problem with this is that it'll come in, it'll outcompete, you know, the native stuff that should be there and the flower is so short-living that, you know, maybe it's not hanging around enough to provide that food in the nectar. And then when it dies, it creates a bare space, like an empty dirt stuff. And guess what happens when you have a lot of, you know, bare space in disturbed areas.

Beau Brockett: Probably have soil issues, I would guess.

Shikha Singh: Soil issues come in, and then you have other invasive species that are more, you know? Garlic mushroom will come in, spotted knapweed and things of that will, you know, come in. So then it's like a doozy in that area. Neither of that is good for the pollinators and for the environment.

Beau Brockett: Yeah, it, this is kind of bringing me back to like my schooling days where you'll talk about, you know, mutualistic relationships. And learning about those was so cool. Like seeing how two species are like so closely connected and they [00:15:00] interact with each other. And then we hear the invasive species sorts of interactions and they're just like kind of devastating, like literally just like emotionally devastating to hear about where, you know, like bugs are, or insects are hatching onto these plants, but they die when they eat them. Terrible things. But yeah.

We're, we're just about at the halfway point, at the turning point of our podcast. Before I send folks off to break though and ourselves off to a short break, any other things you want to talk about that we haven't touched on so far in these sorts of general topics?

Shikha Singh: If you do a lot of recreation, outdoor recreation, you belong to hunting groups and stuff, these are all things that we can learn together.

We need your help because I'm just one person in my area doing this work, and so I need help from other people being like, 'Hey. I was hunting and I saw this, or I was fishing and I saw this.' And so this is something that I think a lot of people can participate and be part of the [00:16:00] solution with. And I think towards the end of the podcast I'll offer some, you know, strategies and things that people can do.

Beau Brockett: Yeah, this is a great setup. First, I have to say, I like that perspective of how it's important not only to help remove the invasive species, but just to identify where they're at in the first place. And second, yes, at the second part of this podcast episode, we'll switch on over, talk a little bit more about threats, but then also what we can do as individuals, collectively. What CISMAs are doing. So I think that's a perfect setup for the second part of our series. Uh, with that then I'll give our folks a quick break and so same with ourselves, so.

[00:17:00] 

Beau Brockett: Welcome back to Common Groundwater, a podcast by the Michigan Environmental Council. You're tuning into our miniseries all about pollinators and native plants, how we can better protect 'em. I'm here with Shika Singh of the Jackson, Lenawee, and Washtenaw CISMA, like a invasive species management group, and we kind of kicked off the first part of our podcast, as I'm sure you know, talking about pollinators in a broader sense, around ecosystems, around invasive species, about the pollination process even. And you've very nicely queued up the second part of our podcast today talking about what we as individuals and collectively can do.

First though, I'd like to spend just a little bit more time talking about some threats that pollinators face. We talked a lot about invasive species [00:18:00] and how they can outcompete the native plants, pollinators need in various ways. I don't know that there's a lot of other sorts of impacts as well.

 Would you mind going over some? 

Shikha Singh: Yeah. Some of the other ones, the threats that, that they face include herbicide and pesticide. So people will apply herbicide and pesticide to manage, you know, whatever, other insects or even other plants. And, you know, I'm not here to say that, you know, like you, you shouldn't, you should never use, you know, any herbicide or chemical.

 There's a time and place to use it. But the important thing is to take precautions and to apply these chemicals in the environment in a responsible manner. And so one of the things I would urge people to do is to look at the label. Well, no. First I wanna go like, make sure you're actually identifying what you need to remove and what the good things and the bad things are.

 And then once you identify like a proper, an appropriate herbicide, make sure that if you are [00:19:00] treating in a wetland or a pond that you are using an aquatic approved herbicide or a pesticide. And if you don't have to use a broad, you know spectrum, like a, a broad, uh, pesticide that gets rid of everything.

 You can get away with one that just works on grass, then, you know, use that one. But then if you find that you have to use it more broad, you know, then do that. But then take steps to like, follow the label, read the label, because a label is a law, and don't apply it when it's just before it's gonna rain because A, you're gonna wash a lot of that off and then as a runoff can, you know, harm and kill other species and other trees. So I think that is, is one of the things that's important.

Also, you know, things like climate change. We're seeing, you know, shifts, we're seeing things like, you know, some places it's getting a little bit drier, maybe it's more conducive for these invasive species to move in.

And yeah, those are some [00:20:00] of the threats. There are a lot more, but, you know, you have a limited amount of time.

Beau Brockett: Yes. Those are the, the biggest kind of overall, I, I just to, to go back to, to each one of those pieces. Yeah. You know, like one thing that I've learned over time is, you know, our, we've divided our world in a way into like climate zones, right?

Mm-hmm. So like when you get a certain sort of plant, you might read an information, label, a label about how if it's in a certain climate zone yeah. You should treat it this way. And those climate zones are changing as climate change happens, which makes plants struggle a bit more in some areas, be successful in others. So it just, that reminded me of, of your climate change discussion. 

 And then with herbicides and pesticides, your approach to it reminds me a lot of actually something that my doctor and I have just talked about, right?

Like when you have like an, like a medical issue, depending on what it is, of course but in my particular case, we're talking about kind of ramping up. You're going through like a process and slowly, [00:21:00] trying out procedures or processes that are a bit more intensive.

 If we can mitigate the problem or manage the problem without needing to like, go through major procedures or whatnot, well, let's do that. And it seems like a similar approach is you're suggesting with, with pesticides.

Shikha Singh: We wanna be respectful of the processes and the environment. I remember like back in the day, you know, you would see people just like spraying things, you know, just anywhere. You know, I see like parents in my neighborhood just like grabbing fistfulls of fertilizer and just like throwing it in clumps.

And you're also wasting a lot of that, you know, chemical. Like, if you're throwing it away and it's getting washed off, you're not gonna see the results. And you're wasting your money and nobody wants to waste money. But it also could have, you know, other impacts. And so definitely contact a CISMA person, contact someone from an agency like a state county to make sure that you are doing it correctly.

Beau Brockett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Shikha Singh: I also wanna highlight, you know, sometimes the timing of application is [00:22:00] important. So some of these herbicides, so you get a lot of plants that have rhizomes.

The rhizomes are underground horizontal stems, and so they're underground and then they, you know, they send up shoots in different areas. And so sometimes when you like hack or cut one plant here, it'll send a shoot up over there and over there. And so one of the things that we tell people to do is that when you are dealing with things like phragmites or Japanese knotweed, the best time to actually apply, you know, herbicide is at the end of summer, early fall, because you wanna use the biology of the plant against it.

End of summer, early fall, it's, you know, preparing for winter, sending all that nutrient back into the roots. And so if you can apply the herbicide at that time, you know, let it ride that wave, you might have a little bit more success and that way you're applying a little bit less you know, in the environment and you're seeing more bang for your buck.

If you don't have to use herbicide, you know, do some hand pulling. You know, I know that can't be done in large infestations, but if you're dealing with a garlic mustard [00:23:00] in your backyard, as long as you're consistent, you can go in and you pull those weeds quickly, uh, and then you're always monitoring it.

You know, as, as homeowners know, you know, once you buy your home, like that's your life, you're gonna be spending your time gardening and weeding. It's always one project or another. So you're gonna have to incorporate this as your, you know, as part of your maintenance of your house.

Beau Brockett: Awesome. Very cool. You've set this up pretty well, again, for the last part of our little talk, or second to last, I should say, which is what people can do. So we've talked about pesticides or other methods of dealing with, creatures or plants that we don't want to have in our gardens and whatnot.

What are some other ways that people can like help protect pollinators, promote them or, and or fight back on those that are threatening. 

Shikha Singh: Right. And so I, I'm really glad for that question because I talked a lot about doom and gloom and it's like, 'Oh my God, it's depressing,' and all these things, but there are things people can do.

One [00:24:00] is, you know, make sure that when you are outside and you're recreating that you are cleaning your shoes, you are cleaning your gear, you're, you know, picking off that plant. Every time I go for a hike, I make sure my shoes are clean. I have like a little, uh, a hand brush where I can, you know, scrub everything off. Or it has a pick where I can get that mud off because some of these seeds can actually get stuck in the crevices of your shoes.

 And if you have a pet, like I had a chocolate lab growing up, and if your pets are like mine, they did not wanna go back home. So they wanted their walk to last forever. The first thing my dog did was when he, when he took him out of the car, was do a couple laps around the backyard, right? And then who knows what was dropping off seeds and stuff. So, you know, decontaminate yourself and maybe brush your pets so that way you're not introducing new things, to an environment.

And then also, you know, landscaping. A lot of people love gardening. You know, it, it's a hot new activity. I think millennials have really embraced gardening, and [00:25:00] people have also embraced the Monarch butterfly. And there's a big campaign, you know, plant milkweed, plant milkweed, and that's great. But recognize that we cannot just sim simply focus on one species.

And by planting a variety of native plants, you can get plants that are blooming, you know, throughout the summer. You also get plants that attract different pollinators, and it will have, you know, a more healthier balanced ecosystem. So avoid just planting one species. Look at the catalog. I guarantee you, you will find, you know, a native species that fits the needs or your vision of landscaping.

Having different types of trees also included your landscape, if possible, is good. Making sure that you have, you know, water sources available for pollinators because in summer it gets really hot and in some of these urban areas, there's like a lack of water. So having like a little dish with a rock that a bee can sit on and, and grab [00:26:00] some water, having bee houses, butterfly houses, having shelters, you know, for maybe some of the amphibian friends that we have could be helpful as well.

Beau Brockett: Yeah. Something that, Carly and David, Cirilli of Plymouth Pollinators, who were our guests on the last episode, had said was like there seems to be more and more native plant sellers in Michigan.

 There's, there's usually like big sales, especially in the spring that happen, or in the early summer. But they also said too, like, if you come across a native plant seller, chances are they know it. They like are very invested in native plants. And so they can just help you as well. Help you out as you're making your purchases. 

Shikha Singh: There are so many resources out there. I know the Audubon Society has a thing where you can put in your zip code and you can see what kind of native plants will attract different kind of birds. You can contact, you know us, you can contact, you know, partners like [Natural Resources Conservation Service], especially if you're in agriculture.

 They might be able to provide some assistance. [00:27:00] There's just so much Extension, Michigan State Extension or other extensions are important. Or just contact, you know, contact us. We're available and we like talking to people and we like helping people.

Beau Brockett: Yeah, that's a great point. This is a great time for me to mention too, that for folks tuning in, if you do want to learn more, we will have some resources including from your CISMA just in the, the podcast description. So if you just scroll down a bit, you'll be able to see some links that will take you. And you there to get more information.

What are some of the things that your CISMA has going on that, that you might want to shout out, whether that be projects, events, et cetera?

Shikha Singh: Yeah, a couple things that we have, we do have a. Spotted knapweed pull, that'll be coming up in August. I believe it's August 11th. We'll do a lot of promotion for that and we'll put that stuff on our social media. We routinely bring in experts to talk about invasive species. So we usually have like a seminar coming and going. We will be doing a, working with the state to do a [00:28:00] webinar later about, you know, some of the work that we're doing with some of our partners. Mm-hmm. Yeah, like some volunteer opportunities will come out.

So, if you're just interested and you wanna learn more, definitely feel free to reach out and visit our social media, because that's where we have a lot of things that we're posting about what's happening and we're always, you know, looking for feedback. So if there's a need or you're like, 'Hey, um, I wanna learn more but I can't access some of these materials, or I need something that's gonna help me.

 able to read this better,' then please reach out. We'll, we'll do the best that we can to make sure that we get the information for you. 

Beau Brockett: Very cool. And you mentioned, too, that even for folks who are outside of. Uh, Lenawee, Jackson, Washtenaw counties, there are other CISMAs, and like groups across the state, covering every county that people can reach out to as well.

Shikha Singh: Yes, you can reach out to different CISMAs. And the cool thing about CISMAs is that we're all very unique. Not all of us are housed at a conservation district. Some [00:29:00] of us are housed in, you know, a nonprofit. Uh, some of them are a singular like nonprofit themselves. And so we all have different setups.

We all focus on different species. We are grant-based, so we do write a lot of grants to address some of these species and concerns as they arise. And we work with a variety of partners, so. Hopefully if I don't know something, one of my colleagues, one of my friends or my agency contacts will know.

And so we work together. And that's the cool thing about CISMA is that we really are a network and the network exists to support our communities. 

Beau Brockett: Very neat. I love that. Well, Sheika, before we go, are there any other sorts of topics or things that you want to mention before we take on off and close out?

Shikha Singh: One of the things I wanna highlight is that Michigan, the state that we are in right now is extremely beautiful. There's a lot of cool resources. There's a lot of natural areas, you know, [00:30:00] dunes, we have forested areas, we have beautiful inland lakes and we have fences. We have Kirtland warbler that people have heard about the conservation and we have the [Eastern] massasauga rattlesnakes.

And so we are very fortunate in the Great Lakes region. And I even expand that, you know, every county, every state in North America or around the world has a lot of really cool natural resources. And I really urge people to kind of get to know those areas, you know, to learn and visit and recreate and build those connections and emotional connections.

Because once you get out and you use these natural resources, you feel like ownership of it. And you can appreciate the ecosystem services. So, use these resources. They're yours, you know, they're ours and, you know, take care of it. Because we want to leave these resources for the future generations\ so that they can also make memories.

You know, we made memories with our family, camping, hiking, and walking, and I want to have another generation to experience the [00:31:00] beauty and the awe of these resources. 

Beau Brockett: Wonderful, wonderful words to set us off, to. Thank you for that. Yeah. And thank you for the love of Michigan as a somewhat recent Michigander. 

Shikha Singh: Yeah. Nature is for everyone. And whether, you know, you're from here or you're traveling, it really is for everyone. There's something for everyone. So please take advantage of it. 

Beau Brockett: Love that. Thank you. Thank you. Well with that then, thank you for taking part in this podcast episode today.

Really appreciate it. I learned a lot. Just, I thought, I came in thinking 'All right, I think I know some stuff,' but I learned a lot as I usually do on these. I really appreciate that. 

Shikha Singh: No, and I love the back and forth because I learned a lot too. So I love, you know, engaging in what people's questions are and understanding.

So it, it's helpful for me. 

Beau Brockett: Great, great, great. Great. And for folks in the audience, thank you for tuning in and if you want to learn more, once again, we have some additional resources from the JLW CISMA and from Environmental [00:32:00] Council and other groups right in our podcast description. And then lastly, thank you again to NRDC for being a production partner on this podcast as well.

So with that, we'll see you soon. 

Shikha Singh: Yeah.